Ryane Motorsports/Formula One FAQ page

How do you change the pads on Wilwood brakes, and is it easier?? Here's the basic caliper with the gold cotter pin in it (no pads) Notice the two pistons, there's two more on the other side.

Q: How long does it take you to remove a cotter pin?

Q: Now how long does it take you to pop in a coupla pads and replace the pin, and bend it's ends down? In some cases, this can be done with the rims on!

Q: How much bigger are the Wilwoods to 88 Fiero rotors? 88 rotors are about 10.25", the Wilwoods, are about 11.75"

Q: And are they thicker?? (see for yourself)

LMMD@grove.iup.edu wrote:
> > As I recall from the Fiero list, you are very knowledgable about Ryane
> Motorsports product line. I've talked to Daryl Armstrong, but I want other
> opinions. I'm looking for the best way to upgrade my '86 (eventually going
> to be a Series II 3800) Fiero. Taking Daryl's advice, I am trying to
> aquire a '88 rear cradle and suspension to upgrade with Ryane products and
> also build up the engine on so when the time comes, it'll just be a
> out-with-the-old and in-with-the-new swap (using his adaptors) with shorter
> down-time for my Fiero which I drive often. My question is about the front
> suspension... the slalom top-of-the-line suspension he makes is definately
> the best, but it is way out of my price range. The sport suspension he
> makes looks like a good alternative with a reasonable price except that I
> think it retains the pro-dive geometry of the stock chevette-derived
> suspension. Any suggestions? I'm probably asking for the impossible here.
> I just want the best Fiero I can have on a reasonable budget.
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Ken Slish

Ken and list,
I have decided to respond to you and the list, but also posted this on my webpage on a
FAQ list, since it asks alot of good questions.

First question, do you want to eliminate pro-dive, large scrub radius, and bump steer?
If these matter to you, if you even know what they are, read on.

1] the pre-88 Fiero front end has all the problems you list, plus large scrub radius
and bump steer, which are as bad as pro dive--if not worse.

2] the pre 88 REAR end is arguably more detrimental, and in need of replacement, due
to its bump steer problem...so make sure that gets done, either way. Remember of course,
you gain 88 rear brakes, but now MUST upgrade the front brakes to something =
or better than 88 brakes. Plus, match springs somehow. It will cost something.

3] Reducing the bump steer in the pre-88 rear end is important (can be done thru
welding/relocation of the tie rod), but still does not address the fact that the
bushings are larger, the ball joints introduce twist and distortion. This setup is
perhaps less optimum, compared to an 88 rear end with it's smaller, tighter bushings
and total lack of ball joints or any other front wheel drive appendages. This is, for
most people a nit-pick, but for a handling enthusiast, why have a 'correction"
when you can have a "better solution". Also you immediately get a sway bar in the
right place (above). You can go to Oil Changers or the Car Wash, now.

4] Making any Fiero "corner better" in this case, corner with more Gs, can be done
partially by lowering the car--using any means, tighter bushings and springs, and
tighter shocks, as well as adding a sway bar where there may not be one. You'll
corner with more G force, if tuned properly. Your ride may suck, and you may have
vicious bump steer, scrub radius and dive problems, but you'll corner tighter.
You could do the 88 rear end, get larger brakes in front, and tighten the bushings and
have a better cornering car for it..all with a stock 84-87 front end.
It's "what happens during cornering" (scrub radius and bump steer) that gets hairy
at high speeds. They can be dangerous.

5] The "Sport" front end by Ryane is not a suspension "geometry" improvement, I asked
him very specifically and he was very forthright about it's intended use.

http://www.ryanemotorsports.com/sport.htm

It's for Kit Car makers who want stock brakes and spindles and need the ability to have coilovers
for height adjustment, and also be able to order wider tracks for Lambo kits, etc. It
allows for proper placement of a central coil and spring arrangement, since it employs
a whole new cross-member--which is stronger in the right places for coilovers, and
alot of positive camber adjustment. Those are nicer to have, but not what a
"handling enthusiast" is looking for. It does not fix pro-dive, it does not fix scrub
radius, and bump steer. These are his words, in a nutshell.

I have talked to other manufacturers of Fiero suspension replacement A-arms which claim
'handling improvements'. This is supposed to be achieved with "direct stock replacement fit"
a-arms which have no geometry changes at all. This is basically the same idea as the
Ryane "Sport" suspension system, with coilovers, but no stronger crossmember, and some
dicey attachment points which are not optimum for a coilover system, that I would not
recommend... yet they claim all these great "handling improvements", improvements which
Daryl Armstrong will not claim. How is this so? I asked one manufacturer directly how
he handles the scrub radius, bump steer and pro dive geometry problems and he told me
it was a 'company secret on a need to know basis'. How insulting. He thinks we don't know
how to read books, or talk to experts.

Be informed, be assertive. Just ask any manfacturer how they handle these problems,
read a book and see if they know their business or not. Some of these manufacturers
may fail to notify you that none of these problems are taken care of, and that you
could lower your car, use stock arms and better shocks, and bushings and get the same
results as with their arms, yet some of these companies constantly slam any competitor
for being more "exotic" and "expensive" as a defense mechanism. I'd say $1800 for
tubular stock-type A-arms... for no handling improvements thru geometry is pretty
"exotic", unless you get the benefits that Ryane offers in the "Sport" package,
proper coilover setup, track width choice, camber adjustment, and of course and
honest evaluation of what it does--and what it does NOT do.
THAT"S why I buy from Armstrong.

6] Getting Fiero suspension to fix bump steer, scrub radius and pro dive, REQUIRES
replacing the front end (Slalom), or buying an 88 car.

http://www.ryanemotorsports.com/slalomf.htm

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Getting a Fiero to "corner better" requires
some stiffer and lower setups--which are pretty cheap. Again, most people will NEVER
plumb the depths to which a race driver might notice the Fiero's problems. Most people
will never 'need' a Slalom front end. Everyone could benefit from it though. It's a
safer setup.

The main reason the "Slalom" suspension package seems so expensive is because
it HAS to replace ALOT of things to make the suspension not have these problems.

Crossmember & it's geometry
A-arms & it's geometry
Spindles and their geometry (not many people know what one), and they are stronger.
Shocks (vastly superior adjustable shocks)
Springs (at any rate you choose)
bearings (sealed, like the rear end, and stonger)
track width choices
The Slalom spindles are currently made to only accept 12" Wildwood brakes
(which makes the conversion $2000 more than just a suspension
upgrade: gotta get the brakes)
(bear in mind, 12" brakes means 16" rims--so add rims onto the price tag, and tires)

Armstrong also says he assumes that any one who wants this kind of handling will want
bigger 12" brakes, and will want the spindles & stronger bearings that bolt right
up to the 12" brakes w/o an adapter (any time you don't need adaptors is nice).
His assumption is right for all the customers he's had making Lambo conversions who
spend $20K 30K on a Fiero conversion. To them, the $2000 front suspension, and $2000
brakes are nothing. For most of us, it's alot of money. This kit was designed firstly
for Kit Cars, but available for Fiero owners. Keep in mind, standard Fiero spindles,
even 88, are not really made to handle the immense torque generated by these 12" 4-piston
brakes. (I bought 88 lowering spindles from him--replaced perfectly good spindles, to get
proper lowering, but also for strength--in case I do the 12" brakes). Maybe we need a
version of the Slalom package that offers use of the stock spindles/brakes with proper
geometry adjustment. He's already thought of that, and it's possible. Probably by making
an adaptor for the stock spindles (or perhaps stock drop spindles from some other
manufacturer like Bell tech), making it so you could still upgrade to his spindles and
brakes later, or use his 10.25" package FOR stock spindles. He says that the stock spindle
geometry can be improved by using adaptors to his already improved "Slalom" suspension.

This is not a product yet, and I would suggest that any one interested in this, give him a
call sometime, to try to get a group of 5 or so, to try it. I have no idea what the price
reduction might be. But I have a feeling, his competitors would be interested in knowing.

So, you have a choice. To elminate these problems, pay to replace the front and rear end,
or buy them on the car already, in the form of a suitable 88 car
(I did the latter--and in actuality, since I intend to buy 12" brakes and replace the
88 brakes, not necessarily the best way to go--should have kept my 87).
The Slalom arguably has some more desireable characteristics than even the 88 front end,
but even Daryl will tell you the 88 rear end is nicer than his Slalom solution for the rear.

http://www.ryanemotorsports.com/slalomr.htm

-MWS